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Keep message boarding, Caples!

I disagree with you John, but I’m just glad someone other than the blog’s writers chimed in. And I’m really happy to see that someone is none other than Fitchburg St. legend John Caples — it made me Hallmark card sappy to see your name. I also give you a lot of credit for admitting to having seen an episode of Blossom, though now I recall you being a Joey Lawrence fan.

In the context of the movie, the Kimya Dawson songs work ok, but in any other context I can’t listen for more than 30 seconds. Actually, make that 20.

Keep chiming in, Caples!

The best element of it seems gleaned from a moderately OK made-for-TV movie (the ham-handed switch from self-absorbed hipster cynical to Hallmark card sappy). The Wes Anderson-lite soundtrack is kind of insulting; it’s like copying another kid’s paper in school and turning it in as your own. I’m flabbergasted that this got so many big Oscar nominations and that the vapid Diablo Cody actually won her very own golden dildo. I’ve seen sharper writing in an episode of Blossom.

I’m no Moldy Peaches fan, but Kimya Dawson was one of the more tolerable aspects of this piece of garbagé.

And I want to see Ellen Page do a few rounds with Kimbo Slice. Is that so wrong?

Anyway, I don’t care for arguing about movies, either. I like to compare opposite points of view, challenge other people’s opinions and have them challenge me in hopes of learning how other people see the same thing… but just going blah blah blah all day long in front of a computer, how boring is that?

I hope Dan doesn’t beat me up.

Ummm…yeah…

I don’t have much to add to the debate. However, I do want to mention that I wasn’t implying your article was written in the spirit of jumping aboard the whole anti-Juno bandwagon. Certainly, I haven’t seen opinions as scathing as yours in print. In fact, most of the backlash I’m referring to is directed more at the hype than the movie itself. I’m not sure if you consider the Village Voice a hipster paper, but I recall reading a piece on VV’s website that compared/contrasted the treatment of unplanned pregnancies in “Juno” and “4 Months, 3 Weeks…”, which took shots at the former.

One question (which admittedly may be kind of impossible to answer): you mention in your article that, for obvious reasons, you would have been more forgiving of Juno’s shortcomings had it been your friend’s micro-budget movie. Let’s say you had seen Juno the second after you awoke from a 5 month coma (and in the spirit of imagination, let’s pretend you were rendered comatose after Dan traveled to New York and bludgeoned you with a pair of “Vote for Pedro” brass knuckles), completely unaware of the buzz surrounding it. Do you still think it’s complete shit? Or simply an average movie that seems crappy because of the buzz (which best sums up my feelings about “Little Miss Sunshine”)?

And finally, I’m going to post a blog later this week that addresses the issue of my growing disinterest in arguing about movies (and please note I recognize a huge difference between arguing about films and discussing them). The timing of the post might make it appear as if I’m somehow indirectly responding to our difference of opinion about Juno, but I actually completed this blog about 3 weeks ago and it has no relation to this debate. I had planned to post it just prior to my mind being taken over by an alien life force that demanded I write about a Mixed Martial Arts event…on our movie blog. Go figure.

I just got done watching Lady Oscar give trophies to millionaires, so I am spent. The only thing that struck me during that entire broadcast is that the girl from MY VIE EN ROSE (or however that is spelled) is friggin’ hot. I had never seen her before. I am kind of distracted at the moment.

Thusly, I don’t have the energy to keep up with this “JUNO” argument. Mostly because I haven’t even seen JUNO.

But I will enjoy reading what comes next. I am hoping you two tear each other to shreds to be honest. But that is mostly just because I like that kind of thing.

And then when I eventually see JUNO, I will, as always, scream my opinions at the supermarket. My favorite thing to do is to only grab one item, and then stand in the “normal” checkout lane (as opposed to the “express lane” and yell my opinions as the lunks in front of me with hundreds of dollars worth of food slowly get checked out. And then, after all that, when the checkout girl tells me to “Have A Nice Day”, I always stare at her for 14 seconds, and then say “Sorry, I have other plans”. And then I dramatically skulk out of that supermarket.

It’s what I do.

To Mr. Warren: I don’t disagree with the overall assessment you make that it starts off one way and by the end sort of comes to show things a different way. I just disagree on the degrees, and I do also think the film itself thinks Juno is sharp and hip from the very beginning, rather than, as you say, merely portraying someone who thinks she’s sharp and hip. The music, the editing, and even the way all the characters function in relation to her (other than her boyfriend, who’s seen as equally cool) does nothing to make you think that she’s deluding herself- at least, not to my perception. I certainly didn’t get the feeling that her “witty” comebacks were supposed to be perceived as immature by the audience- rather, that we’re supposed to laugh along with her at how she sharply sees through society’s bullshit. But you’re right in that the movie does turn around after a while, which is unexpectedly odd. If that was the author’s intention all along, either it was over my head or they did a shitty job executing that concept. Clearly, Hollywood was right about what makes money… but I never pretended otherwise. Why, if I knew how to make 150 million dollars…

As for it being hip to hate Juno, I gotta say, I have seen nothing of the like here in NYC- that’s why I wrote my little spiel. I hear nothing but praise for it, at least in hipster papers and general hipster chatter. A few friends of mine do hate the film, so I suspect there are more of us out there, but I haven’t seen anything negative in print… but maybe I’m just totally out of it these days. Stand strong, Warren, if the tide has turned against you.

Finally, “Little Miss Sunshine” was a movie that looked absolutely retarded- a total formula feel-good plot full of stock characters, I thought, until I saw it and found myself loving it. There’s an example of good writing overcoming a really limited premise- I wouldn’t say it’s brilliant or anything, but it was definitely sincere, smart, and funny! The characters won this cynic over with their genuine flaws and humor.

No? You’re not buying it? Hello…?

Well, given that this is one of my favorite movies of 2007, I’ll have to respectfully disagree with most of your sentiments, Memo. True, the hipper-than-thou dialogue nearly kicked me out of it early on, but I really think the film does become quite substantive by its conclusion. I don’t feel the filmmakers’ intention was to make Juno “the sharpest, hippest 17-year-old you’ve ever known.” I think the idea was to show us that Juno believed she was all those things, but as the story develops, the audience realizes she’s just as flawed and immature as most teenage know-it-alls. I gradually came to accept the dialogue — that’s the way the writer feels these characters should speak, and I’m glad she didn’t deviate from it when the film takes a more serious turn. And since Hollywood’s bottom line goal is making money, I’d have to say their decision to not re-write the overwritten, hipster dialogue is anything but clueless (I think this flick’s domestic box-office is nearing $150 million).

I suppose it’s a matter of how you perceive the character — or perhaps, more relevantly, how you believe the filmmakers want you to perceive the character. I know the movie’s marketing campaign tries to sell little Juno as, like you put it, Hollywood’s current “It Girl,” but the filmmakers provide us signs that they don’t actually feel this way about her. Despite the fact that Juno gives the outward appearance of being so self-assured, it’s evident that Michael Cera’s far less articulate (and far less smug) character has the better head on his shoulders, because he understands you’re not supposed to have the whole world figured out when you’re 17. I’m glad you point out that Jason Bateman’s cool-guy, rocker 30-something is ultimately exposed as something of a screw-up in need of therapy.

I’m not sure what it’s like in NYC or Wisconsin, but in LA the backlash against the media darling that is “Juno” commenced months ago (probably at the point when it started getting shoved down everyone’s throats). It’s definitely not the cool movie to like anymore. In fact, admit you’re a fan now and risk being viewed as some sheep who will buy into any Zeitgeist foisted upon you by the trendmakers.

We agree on one issue, however: Kimya Dawson is utterly self-conscious drek. The film would have even been better if Juno’s personal growth was accompanied by a scene of her smashing her Kimya Dawson and Moldy Peaches discs and buying a couple of early Joni Mitchell albums.

Regardless, I still really enjoyed it. And it’s about 50,000x better than last year’s little-movie-that-could, “Little Miss Sunshine.”

Jesus Christ, I thought “I” was supposed to be the angry maniac on the staff! I thought we discussed this. You and Warren were supposed to write serious film criticism, and I was supposed to write nonsense that angered people, and crippled my already crippled future in show business. This was discussed during Cinemaspeak preproduction, as you will now probably conveniently forget, Mr. Clemens. I guess I will have to step it up a bit.

I have not seen JUNO yet, and was interested in checking it out…but after your article, I am quivering in fear, and might just instead burn down the movie theater here in town so I don’t accidentally see it. And now that I think about it, I should probably torch the rental stores too.

But I simply take offense to one section of your article. You said: “One could argue that Cinemaspeak is just such a place- one of countless movie blogs that exist for purely self-serving reasons. Maybe it is- but the truth is I see value in this here little site, full of idiosyncratic thoughts put forth by individuals, rather than committees.”

As a member of this blog staff, I take offense to that statement.

I am not an idiosyncrat.

I have an I.Q. “well” into the double digits, sir.